A Conversation with Tim Mielants (SMALL THINGS LIKE THESE)
The new movie Small Things Like These, from Belgian director Tim Mielants (Will), is an adaptation of Irish author Clair Keegan’s 2021 novella of the same title. Both film and source text tackle the horror of Ireland’s Magdalene Laundries, a dreaded Catholic institution that ostensibly helped out unwed mothers by taking them in and giving their children up for adoption, but really functioned more as slavery centers. Starring Cillian Murphy (Oppenheimer), Eileen Walsh (Made in Italy), and Emily Watson (God’s Creatures), the film follows one man (Murphy) as he balances the security of his family against the pangs of conscience he experiences once he discovers the truth behind the walls of the local convent. I had a chance to moderate the post-screening Q&A for the film at the 2024 Middleburg Film Festival (out of which I reviewed the film), and here is a transcript of that conversation, edited for length and clarity. Mielants’ English is perfect, so other than any editing I have done to shorten the discussion, his words are his own.
Hammer to Nail: So, as I understand form the press notes, Cillian Murphy was initially the driving force behind this film. He read the source novella by Claire Keegan, was a big fan, obtained the rights, and then at that point you were brought on board. Or am I getting the order wrong? What I want to ask is how you, a Belgian director, became involved in such a quintessentially Irish story?
Tim Mielants: Why me?
HtN: Why you?
TM: This is how it went. I know Cillian from Peaky Blinders, the third season. We worked together very well. It was just a good match. And then he saw my first feature, Patrick, which I thought would be the end of my career because it’s about a man looking for his hammer in a nudist camp. And he loved it. He said, “I want to do a movie with you.” So we were looking for material. And I remember Cillian’s wife waving the book in front of us, saying, “You should do this.” And then I read it and I found it a very personal story, this story about grief. I also had a similar traumatic event like this character. And that was something that I wanted to explore together with Cillian, and that was the starting point. And then Cillian saw Matt Damon on the set of Oppenheimer and he asked, “Do you want to give me money for the movie?” (audience laughs) And Matt said, “Yes.”
HtN: How do you think your outsider’s perspective on Ireland affected the story? Because again, it’s a very Irish movie.
TM: For me, the engine of the story is grief and the structure of grief and how he copes with that pain and how that makes him stronger. Where I come from, in Belgium, the Roman Catholic Church is also in every aspect of society. So that’s something I’m familiar with. And then I think that the story is also about how when you’re silent, you are complicit. And that’s something I understood, as well. As far as the Irish background, Irish history, I knew nothing and I was very … well, of course I knew something, but I was very open to having people teach me and help me out with that.
HtN: I really like Claire Keegan as a writer. She also wrote Foster, which was turned into the film The Quiet Girl, which is the first Irish-language film to be nominated for an Oscar. It’s a beautiful movie, as well. I really like this film, too. But the book opens with the following sentences: “In October there were yellow trees. Then the clocks went back the hour and the long November winds came in and blew, and stripped the trees bare.” That very much sets this bleak tone. How did you go about creating that atmosphere, visually, in the film?
Filmmaker Tim Mielants & our Chris Reed
TM: I tried to understand Cillian’s thoughts as the main character, his every aspect. I wanted to know what happens in his mind, unconsciously, because I believe the camera can read his thoughts. I mapped out everything that I was thinking about, every association. If you would see the map, you would think I’m mentally ill, but that’s where I started from, storyboarding. And I felt like I should be a silent observer, with the camera always at the same place, in the living room, hallway, then living room again, that comes back and is some kind of “God’s eye.” So actually it was almost a religious way of visual interpretation, I guess. Lighting-wise, it was early Van Gogh Dutch period. So that’s something I brought into play from my own country.
HtN: There is also an evocative sound design, which really sets the location as much as anything. Walking up on stage just now before this Q&A, as the end credits ran, I heard the crow cawing, and you have all these barnyard sounds, as well. So how did you work to create that soundscape that is as much a character as anything else?
TM: We tried not to use music at all. Of course, we didn’t succeed in that. So we needed something and just worked with the mixer. The clocks and the fire were the driving source to make music. And we thought of an electronic approach because the movie felt so acoustic. If you put piano or strings on top of it, then it would navigate in the wrong direction. So it was more through trial and error that we created this sound.
HtN: Enda Walsh wrote the screenplay. What differences, if any, exist story-wise between the book and the screenplay?
TM: The screenplay is extremely close to the book. I think the three of us—me, Cillian and Enda—we came back together, me with my storyboards and my brain map and then Cillian with his thoughts, and we pinpointed. That was like the most creative, interesting event in my entire life.
HtN: Now, the book is set, as is the movie, in New Ross in County Wexford. Was there ever any discussion about shooting anyplace else? Or did you always know you really wanted to shoot in that same location?
TM: The first thing we did was visit the place. And it just worked. I could almost smell the existential emptiness. And it was like you could put the camera there and we got the depth and the texture and got everything. We got lucky.
HtN: Eileen Walsh, who plays Cillian’s character Bill’s wife, Eileen, in the film, is a longtime friend of Cillian Murphy, as I’ve read. They’ve been best friends for a long time. So they had that close relationship to begin with. How did you work with them, however, to create the domestic life that they have?
TM: I was really advocating to do it with her because when they sit next to each other, you get so much for free. And I think the book is very short and there’s not a lot of information about who these people are. And we sat down two or three days to explore their relationship. What was their first date like? What were their parents like? What are they talking about? So we only see the tip of the iceberg, but we really worked on what’s underneath there and then really explored, brainstormed, about who these people are. And I think that’s the only way to get these kinds of scenes right, I guess.
HtN: And how about the rest of the cast, including Emily Watson, who’s great as the Mother Superior?
A still from SMALL THINGS LIKE THESE
TM: Emily Watson is extremely important to me. My mother always brought me to the pictures and I saw Breaking the Waves when I was way too young for it. And I have always wanted to work with her. And then Cillian said, “OK. Let’s call her.” And I said, “We can’t do that. She’s out of our league.” But she came and she did it. Her scene was my biggest challenge because I think Bill has tried to face his own trauma and the content for me was a metaphor of entering his own trauma, what happened to his mother, something he didn’t want to face. So I used creative license a little bit to make it bigger than life and hyper-realistic but grounded at the same time, which was very difficult, but I believe she pulled it off.
HtN: She’s wonderful. I’ve also liked her ever since Breaking the Waves. I must be a little older than you because I saw it … and it was appropriate. (audience laughs) Before I turn it over to the audience, I just want to thank you for talking to me!
TM: Thank you!
– Christopher Llewellyn Reed (@ChrisReedFilm)
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