A Conversation with Nathan Silver (BETWEEN THE TEMPLES)
Nathan Silver is a New York City based filmmaker who has been working as a writer/director since 2009. His latest project Between The Temples is in theaters this weekend and is not only an excellent film, it is essential Jewish cinema. Joining the ranks of greats like A Serious Man, The film nails exactly what it’s like to be jewish as good as any film. It stars Jason Schwartzman amongst an insanely talented ensemble cast as a depressed cantor living in upstate New York who loses his voice. If that sounds good, you should be seated in theaters this weekend. It had an epic festival run stopping by Tribeca, Sundance and Berlin and deservedly so as the film is able to balance Humor, drama, grief and absurdity perfectly. It was so great to speak with Nathan in the following conversation edited for length and clarity.
Hammer to Nail: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. As a New York Jew this really spoke to me haha and I am so stoked for my parents to watch it.
Nathan Silver: Thank you!
HTN: The first thing I would love to hear about was the casting process because everyone played their part to the perfect note.
NS: It was written with Jason (Schwartzman) in mind. Luckily, when we reached out to him, I had a mutual friend who told Jason that we needed to work together and that we would hit it off. Jason listened to him! We had no idea who would play Carla. One night, while on my honeymoon, I had covid, and in a feverish dream Carol (Kane) came to me. I wrote to my producers and co-writer back home and everyone was extremely onboard. They could not believe we had not thought of her yet. She had always wanted to work with Jason. We got them on zoom together and their chemistry was immediately apparent.
They have a wonderful way with each other. It’s like watching a slap-stick comedy live. We really wanted Robert Smigel for the role of the rabbi, we had no idea he would be willing to work on an indie like this film. We sent him an offer and one night I got a call and he said, “This is Robert from TV.” I told him he was a hero of mine, and he really loved the script! He made it work with his schedule. Madeline Weinstein was a roommate of mine. We always wanted to work together and this seemed like the perfect project for her. One of our producers, Adam Kirsch, also managed Dolly De Leon, and suggested her. I saw Triangle of Sadness and thought she would be perfect. I love Caroline Aaron from Curb and Woody Allen films. She really killed it. It was such a neat cast. It is always a miracle to shoot a movie but to bring all these people together, it truly meant the world to me, I could not imagine it with another cast.
HTN: I really love the script for this film. The film’s ability to shift between Comedy, drama, absurdity and a poignant look at judaism really impressed me. What is your screenwriting process like and did it differ on this film from previous projects?
The BETWEEN THE TEMPLES cast at Sundance, ’24
NS: It was a pretty similar process to my past work. We presented all the actors with what we call a “scriptment.” It was around 40 pages and reads like a novella. The dialogue was suggested, not broken out like it would be in a normal script. I start to talk with all the actors about their characters and they start poking holes in the story. We take this feedback and try to figure out how to make this story work on a character level and have that dictate the plot. By the time we are shooting, some of the scene’s have written dialogue but most, dialogue would be scripted one day before in reaction to whatever was happening on set. I really wanted the set to shape the film day in and day out.
HTN: The film was shot on 16mm by the wonderful Sean Price Williams. Why did you feel that it was the best format to tell this story?
NS: We wanted it to be infused with warmth. Looking at some Soviet films from the 70s, like Kira Muratova’s, they would take these bleak landscapes, and make them so inviting! It almost represents Carla’s spirit in a way. That analogue look can be lost in high definitions and it was so important to this story.
HTN: That was definitely accomplished. It was warm and bleak. The first two sequences I think are so great. It really just throws you in there with no warning and sets the tone early. What was your thinking behind these two introductory sequences?
NS: That scene used to come later in the movie. We realized that it summed up the type of humor that the rest of the film was filled with. We wanted to throw the audience into his world and establish that he had these 2 mothers who were pushing people onto him.
HTN: A moment early on that had me crying laughing is when Rabbi Bruce (Smigel) is asking Ben (Schwartzman) if he is feeling ok. Ben says that he feels like he is hanging in there. Jason Schwartzman then does what at first seems like a cry, then a sneeze, and then finally a yawn. How did this moment come to life?
NS: It was actually written as such, however, Jason added the yawn in there haha. His comic timing in every way, is just exactly as you would expect. It is perfect. Throughout the whole shoot he kept saying, “I have a stupid idea.” and every time it would be genius. I would always think, “damn, I wish I thought of that.” This is why we have brains on set, its all about collaborating with people who are smarter than you.
HTN: Right when I saw that I knew I was in for essential Jewish cinema. The conversation about heaven with the priest was fascinating to me. A very matter of fact conversation that left a lasting impression. What was your thinking behind this moment?
NS: Jason Grisell who plays the priest actually knows a lot about Catholicism. He controls the sound system at a church uptown. We had some stuff written, but we let them riff on the basic beats of the scene. Jason just went in there, in character, asking questions and Grisell rolled with him and was able to provide these fascinating answers. We shot it with one camera, my editor was about to kill me, in the end we had the perfect amount of footage for it to all click into place. It was shot in documentary style. I remember my script supervisor saying to me, “I could watch this scene all day.” They really played off each other well.
HTN: Yes, I thought to myself that it could work as its own short film. Definitely a moment that stuck with me. Another one that was memorable was the J-date sequence. First of all what the hell are these disgusting drinks he keeps having and secondly, how did this moment come to you?
NS: It is really about pushing this joke that he cannot find anyone right. A woman, who is a plastic surgeon, obviously not right for him, then it’s the Rabbi’s daughter, and now he’s on a date with a woman with a Jewish fetish. The drink is called a mudslide. Years ago I wrote this script with a mudslide joke. We just thought they were really funny. It fits Ben’s character well. It is this very childish thing, and bartenders hate making them. It worked on multiple levels. I love the bartender just suggesting it off the top because they would never do that.
HTN: At the 48 minute mark is a truly wild moment. We have this sped up slapstick-esque kippah chase. This transitions brilliantly with some fluttering piano notes into a truly striking moment of Jason out in the snow crawling and looking out into the distance. This moment really encapsulated for me what I loved so much about it so I would love to hear about the creation of this moment.
A still from BETWEEN THE TEMPLES
NS: It is all about the unexpected at all times. A tender moment can become a hilarious moment back into something tender and ultimately be absurd. It really comes down to my editor embracing that. This goes back to Truffaut. You can have slapstick elements in a drama. You do not want to be able to expect what is coming next. That feels like the heart of the film to me. Good things can actually happen. There is a possibility of happiness in the bleak moments and bleakness in the happy moments.
HTN: The first dinner sequence where Jason reveals he plans on bat mitzfahing Carla. I almost see this as the first time that you stop laughing at these characters and truly start understanding them. My empathy began to really click here as the dad laughs at this reveal. The camera work here is so good. Please talk about your thinking here as well.
NS: That moment was about showing that her son does not like her. We thought about it in terms that this son never liked his mother and he wished she died instead of his father. Now he feels stuck with this woman who makes decisions that he cannot stand. He has more of his father’s scientific mind as Carla points out at one point in the film. Her family and even Jason’s does not necessarily want what is best for them.
HTN: It felt like that first moment where I was done laughing at them and started to feel a little bad.
NS: Yes!!
HTN: The kiss sequence in the car was fascinating. A very brilliant example of dark comedy. What did you want to accomplish at this moment and what were your instructions to the actors?
NS: Jason’s character is grieving. He has these erotic messages from his deceased wife. He is trying to bring her back at this moment. It’s almost as if Gaby (Madeline Weinstein) appears as this ghost of the dead wife. It borders on heartbreaking and comedic. It speaks to what we were going for in almost every sequence. To have that balance with humor and tenderness.
HTN: The film is not exactly in your face or a blockbuster, however, it really feels like it is geared towards a theatrical experience with really intricate sound design. Could you talk about that sound design process and also
NS: I think all comedies should be seen on a big screen. When I watch this with an audience, the laughter of others is infectious for all different ages and I think it really brings out the spirit of the movie. The sound design was complicated because there is constantly overlapping dialogue. I never have anyone deliver clean lines because it feels unnatural to me. John (Nicholls) and Arjun (Sheth) really embraced this challenge, and designed further chaos into the mix. People who have seen the film a few times keep telling me about all the new lines they are catching. It is hard to get fully in one sitting.
**SPOILER**
HTN: Ending with this as it is a semi spoiler. Was having him and Carla do the torah portion outside in full, was that always the ending? Why was this the logical place for this to conclude?
NS: It was always the ending. It had to take place outside of an institution. It had to be about them and them alone. Them together embracing their own forms of Judaism and spirituality.
HTN: Well that is all the time I have. Was really such an honor to sit down with you. I thought the film was incredible and I will be telling all my friends to see it in theaters August 23rd!
– Jack Schenker (@YUNGOCUPOTIS)
Post a Comment
