If someone had told you in the 1980s that actor/comic Bobcat Goldthwait was going to blossom into one of American cinema’s most exciting new auteurs in the early 21st century, you’d be forgiven for not believing them. But it’s true. After taking a fifteen-year hiatus from feature film directing (1991’s Shakes the Clown has attained minor cult status), Goldthwait reemerged in 2006 with Sleeping Dogs Lie, a shockingly funny tale about a young woman who learns a very valuable lesson: when it comes to relationships, it’s perhaps better not to divulge everything about one’s past. Now, with World’s Greatest Dad, Goldthwait delivers another subversive spin on the family friendly Hollywood comedy, in which Robin Williams stars as Lance Clayton, a high school poetry teacher who dreams of become a world-famous writer. When tragedy strikes, an opportunity presents itself, and Lance runs with it. An outlandish satire of the conformity that pervades not just our nation’s scholastic institutions, but our nation period, World’s Greatest Dad packs a deceptively smart, sweetly crude punch. By using outlandish premises to tackle genuine moral dilemmas, Goldthwait is making films that are both uncomfortably hilarious and genuinely thought-provoking. I recently spoke to Goldthwait on the phone—hours before he was scheduled to do an on-air radio interview for his “other” job—where we discussed his rebirth as a director, his writing process, and the importance of retaining creative control over his movies.

H2N: Since Shakes the Clown, which you made in the early ‘90s, you’ve directed a lot of television. But it wasn’t until Sleeping Dogs Lie that you dove back into the feature realm. Were you content during that period or were you really itching to get another feature off the ground and it just wasn’t happening?

BC: I always wanted to keep making movies. I tried to get jobs directing commercials or rock videos. I’d always made my own shorts and things. But, yeah, man, I couldn’t connect the dots. I was asked to go work on The Man Show, where I started directing segments. I wouldn’t direct the show but I’d direct the parody kind of stuff. That’s what got me back into directing. With Sleeping Dogs Lie, I’d just written a script and Sara (de Sa Rego), who’s my girlfriend now, she read it and was like, “This is good. We should make it.” I was like, “I don’t have any money,” and she said that if we just started people would help. And we got a crew from Craigslist. I was still at the Kimmel show. We had like a week off and I asked Jimmy for another week off, so that’s how I made that first one. I’ve always wanted to make movies. It’s the thing I like doing more than anything. And this doesn’t sell tickets so much, but if I could not do stand-up I’d be really happy. I really have no interest in acting. I want to keep making small movies.

H2N: This is obvious, I suppose, but did the advancements in the digital world help you to finally take the leap?

BC: Yeah. That was the biggest difference. I could just shoot a movie on tape. Ten years ago, you couldn’t really do that. But, you know, I’ve always said that if people don’t like the movies—you don’t like my movie or any movies—just go make a movie. ‘Cause that’s what we did. We just got some friends together and made a movie. That’s really what we did. I always think it’s funny that people go, “Oh, well you’re in show business.” It’s like, well, yeah, it helped me get access to things we stole for that purpose. (H2N laughs) But I don’t think it helps you get into Sundance. I think, like, when a DVD comes to Sundance and it says “Bobcat Goldthwait” on it, I can hear the sound of eyes rolling from Los Angeles. So that movie really exceeded my expectations. I didn’t think it was gonna get into Park City.

H2N: We don’t need to get specific, but I know Sleeping Dogs Lie was made very cheaply.

BC: By the time we got to Sundance we had spent, like, fifty grand on it. We were projecting on tape. But then when we got bought the prints were made and all that stuff. But, yeah, that was pretty down and dirty.

H2N: How about with World’s Greatest Dad? Does Robin Williams automatically launch it into a different budgetary stratosphere, or was that something you were hoping for anyway?

BC: No. I had written the screenplay for World’s Greatest Dad assuming I’d be filming it the same way I did Sleeping Dogs Lie. I didn’t write it for Robin even though he’s one of my best friends. I didn’t want to exploit our relationship. Certainly if I was gonna write a movie for Robin I wouldn’t make him a poetry teacher again. (H2N laughs loudly) So the budget of this movie was still small, even for indie standards, but that was because I really wanted to make the movie with people who were gonna be supportive and not give me notes. When Robin got attached there were offers for financing the movie but I actually walked away from that. I could tell they were gonna give me notes. They were so excited at the idea of having a comedy starring Robin Williams and I’m so glad I ended up not making it with those people because at this point now they’d be marketing it completely wrong. I’m really happy with Magnolia.

H2N: For me, what’s so interesting about what you’re doing, and I’ve already written about this, is how you’re working within a formulaic Hollywood structure but the content is so subversive and uncomfortable.

BC: I think you mentioned that stylistically, this might fit those terms too. That is a choice when I’m making these movies. I have a reel, in all my years of doing television, I’ve done some very stylized parodies where we have a lot of camera movements to look like the movie we’re parodying. But I had no interest in doing anything flashy. Mike Plante said something really funny about the new movie, he said it looks like an episode of Degrassi. (H2N laughs) If I was gonna make a movie that was supposed to be suspenseful or an action movie or something like that, then that is the time to justify camera moves and splashy stuff. But I think the movies that influenced me the most are like the Woody Allen movies from the ‘80s and ‘70s, movies where the camera’s not pointing out the jokes. My argument is always: when I’m talking to you I’m not slowwwly walllllking closerrrrrr. (H2N laughs)

H2N: How about in a general sense with regards to writing, specifically scriptwriting. Do you have a daily routine? Do you write when compelled? Or do you force yourself to do it even when you aren’t feeling it?

BC: My writing process is: I usually have a couple things that I’m thinking about. I tend to write them really fast. Sometimes I go to a chain quality hotel and I just sit there and write. That way I have the pressure of spending money on the hotel. World’s Greatest Dad I wrote in five days. Sleeping Dogs Lie I wrote in three days. My detractors would say that I should have probably spent another day or two on them. (BC laughs) By the way, this is all brand new. Before it used to take me forever to write screenplays because I was always trying to second-guess what would “get made.” Or “this would be a good vehicle for me” and all this crap. And about six years ago I just stopped everything. I went way back and I thought, “I’m just gonna write a screenplay to see if I can write one and hand it to people and see if it would work for them.” And that was Sleeping Dogs Lie. I’d been having a lot of problems writing this one screenplay that was very G-rated, and my friend Jack Burns just finally said, “Bobcat, you’re not G-rated.” (both laugh)

H2N: So you’re saying that the writing of the screenplay comes quick. Do you outline and take notes?

BC: I do that. A lot of notes. My pockets are always filled with tons of scribbles and things, and that’s done before I write. And then with the outline, I really try to boil it down to like a one or two page piece of paper that works as a story. And once I have that, then I start writing the actual screenplay.

I usually always start with the end of the movie first, stuff that happens in the last scene or what’s being said in the last scene. That’s the beginning. You know, there’s the bestiality [in Sleeping Dogs Lie] and what happens in this new one, but those aren’t the first ideas of the movie.

H2N: How closely does your finished film reflect the shooting script? Obviously things change along the way, but are you pretty rigid when you get to the point of shooting?

BC: It’s funny, ‘cause Robin gets really defensive when people suggest that he was ad-libbing, and he always says, “That’s all in the script, that’s all in the script.” I guess things are evolving, but you try to work with actors—and not only actors, but crew members—that when they pitch new ideas, they’re on the same page and it reflects the tone of what we’re doing.

H2N: As far as aligning yourself with people who trust your vision—from the top down—I’ve been hearing so many horror stories from friends who are supposedly hired for “their vision” and they’re told they’re “so great” and then when they try to bring their own ideas to the table, the powers-that-be are like, “Um, no, this is what we want.” That doesn’t make any sense to me.

BC: That’s why if I keep making movies I’ll keep making them really small, because I’ve already been down that road too many times, you know? As an actor and as a comedian, where you don’t have any say. So if the sacrifice is that I have to go on the road and do stand-up to pay my bills, I’m willing to do that because I don’t want to give up the control.

H2N: In the rough-cut stage, do you get outside eyes or have test screenings, however large or small?

BC: This movie was great because what Jason (Stewart, the editor) and I did was at the end of every week, we would get about ten friends or so and put them in a room and watch the movie. And we would see what was playing or what wasn’t and we would just talk. And that’s the best way, especially if it’s a comedy, to see if it’s playing.

H2N: Is it hard for you to “kill darlings?”

BC: I don’t ever get married to anything, because I know that I’m gonna be sitting around watching it some day with people who aren’t laughing, so when that stuff is on the bubble and not playing, it’s over-magnified. Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris are friends of mine. I showed it to them, ‘cause I’ve known them from years ago. And on this one John goes, “In stand-up, you used to always make points and then you’d stick it in.” I go, “I guess, yeah,” and he says, “And then you’d twist it.” I go, “Yeah.” He goes, “When you were doing stand-up, you used to only twist it maybe one or two more times.” I go, “I wasn’t aware of that.” He goes, “Yeah, with some of the jokes here, you’re twisting two or three times.” That was a really big help, actually, ‘cause he’d say, “Look at this and look at that.” But that’s a big difference between a friend pointing out something—who is a director—and some suit who’s not gonna be there next week giving you notes on a film that they didn’t develop.

H2N: Or who thinks that they aren’t doing their job if they don’t make their presence felt by giving feedback, however inappropriate and wrong it might be.

BC: Yeah. I’ve been down that road, and I still do work for people—like Kimmel or Dave Chappelle or something like that—where all I’m trying to do is facilitate those guys and make sure that they’re happy with the product. But when outsiders start giving you crazy notes… (BC laughs)

H2N: You’re quickly mastering the art of the subversive comedy, but do you want to make films in different types of genres?

BC: I think what interests me is to keep making different kinds of movies. But I think that this kind of comedy and tone will still be there. The script I’m writing now is a very violent movie, but when I look at it I go, “This is the same awkwardness.” Even when there’s killing going on there’s always these moments of people being uncomfortable.

H2N: On the heels of the release of World’s Greatest Dad, is there any level of expectation, or is getting this far enough of a victory for you?

BC: You know what’s funny is with Stay [the original title of Sleeping Dogs Lie], my expectations were, “I really hope someday I get to see this in a theater.” And when I said that I didn’t mean, like, people buying tickets. I really meant that I hoped I got to see it projected with a crowd. And it exceeded that expectation. With this one, I thought the same thing, like, “I’m keepin’ it real.” (H2N laughs) But I know that that’s not reality. I’m not naïve, I don’t see this movie as a blockbuster or even a blockbuster indie, but I really hope that people go out to see it. One, for my own ego, but then for the fact that Robin—he’s really proud of the movie—but he also did me a really big favor by lending himself and his talent to it. So hopefully people go see it. If it did the business that Two Lovers did, I would be thrilled.

— Michael Tully

Tags: Bobcat Goldthwait, Dave Chappelle, Jack Burns, Jason Stewart, Jimmy Kimmel, Jonathan Dayton, Magnolia Pictures, Mike Plante, Robin Williams, Sara de Sa Rego, Sleeping Dogs Lie, Stay, The Man Show, Two Lovers, Valerie Faris, World's Greatest Dad